Solar system really should be Oxygen and not Flourine
Question
May 30, 2009
though as stated you say that our solar system is a flourine atom. pluto hardly counts as a planet, it's much too small and has none of the generic properties of what we know as a planet. It is widely disregarded as a planet. so that would mean their were 8 electrons and in fact we are an atom of oxygen. our sun is made of a large amount of oxygen so isn't there a chance that we are actually an atom in the sun. and since we know very little about the sun and the atoms within. I would have thought they would have different generic properties. because of all the gases around us and all the energy we maybe lost our shell some time ago, or never had one. though most atoms do, as we know of, we maybe are looking at the wrong atoms. does this sound logical.... possible.... or even probable?
James - UK
17822
Answer
That is true that since Pluto has been demoted and seems to been captured, as opposed to formed from our Sun, it should not be considered part of the "Atom as a Solar System". I agree that making our solar system equivalent to Oxygen would be more appropriate. I will update the lesson to reflect that.
If it is Oxygen, it would be symbolic, since Oxygen is a main part of life as we know it. Although the analogy between the solar system and atoms is fascinating, there are too many problems to make it a valid assumption. But it does open the door for possibilities of things we can't determine. Your ideas could be possible too.
Ok, here is my theory on the subject. The rules of physics are not constant even with in our understanding: therefore, as the physical size of the model changes the rules that govern it's behavior will change. I have always believed our solar system to be an atom in a very much larger scale of matter. I can't prove my beliefs but I do believe.
Ray - USA
17227
Answer
Thanks for your ideas.
It seems that when things get to an atomic or subatomic size, the rules of physics change somewhat. Likewise, when looking at extreme astronomical sizes, the rules seem different. But there certainly can be a parallel between atoms, solar systems and universes.
I'm not sure if I'll get any response from you on this, but I just wanted to say that your article is full of errors.
The idea that the nucleus could give off radiation in the same way the sun could is particularly ridiculous.
There are similarities between the way the solar system looks and the Bohr model of the atom. But it is not at all correct to then imply that electrons could be like planets. Electrons can be thought of as point like particles or as probability wave functions, but certainly not as spheres.
The nucleus of an atom is vaguely spherical but has no other similarities to a star. An atom has a discrete number of nuclei, on the order of dozens - nothing at all like the number of particles in a sun.
The article isn't really helpful and actively encourages misunderstanding amongst students.
For example the sentence "perhaps our solar system is an atom in some larger entity" is complete nonsense. An atom is of course usually indivisible unless subjected to extreme forces and can in most instances be thought of as akin to a hard sphere. The solar system has no such properties. If two Helium atoms were to collide for example they would bounce off each other like two tennis balls. If two solar systems hit each other they would most likely pass through each other with some disruption of their orbital pattern, or with some planets crashing.
Most of the other articles on your site seem pretty good, but this one looks pretty silly.
Regards
Michael - UK
15493
Answer
Thanks for your comments.
Note that I said that people have speculated on this topic and that modern theories point out that such an idea is probably not correct. The last section states there are many problems with the idea. But the point of the lesson is for students to keep their minds open and to use their imagination. I do not state that the idea is fact.
The lesson states: "Thinking and speculation on this sort of thing can be fun to do. Science fiction writers have used such speculation to write stories and movies for use to enjoy.
Look beyond what is obvious. Examine similarities and trends in order to draw some conclusions or create a theory. That is what science is all about."
At the very least, I got you thinking about how the atoms as solar systems concept is not valid.
Ron Kurtus, My name is Michael Delaney. I'm 28 years old, and a general contractor in the U.S. I have a B.S. in business finance from The University of Central Florida, and have studied many popular theories thoughout my life. I have had similar thoughts and ideas as you discuss in your article for a long time, but truthfully have never known anyone who has any interest, or maybe understanding to the like. After finally searching "similarity between atomic structure and the solar system" with Google, it is a great relief to have found you and all the other interested souls who have left comments. I will certainly spend time reading what else you have to say on your website. I dont have any questions, but share many of the thoughts and ideas expressed by your other readers. I do, however, have another crazy idea that is misunderstood by everyone that i have ever tried to explain it to. I understand it is completely off the topic, but fun to think about also. Here it goes.... In the colorfull world we live, what if colors are not what they appear to be? If we are all taught from an early age the names of the colors we percieve, could it not be possible that we see things differently? You and I both were taught that red is red. Maybe you see red as i see blue, but since we were both taught that it is "red" we are seeing, we would never know the difference. As a contractor I deal a lot with different tastes in color. I guess it is only natural i came up with my "theory of color relativity". It would certainly explain the terrible taste (as percieved by my eyes) some of my clients diplay when choosing paint colors. Sorry to steer off course, but its exciting to be among similar thinkers. Thanks for your time!
Michael - USA
15407
Answer
Thanks for your feedback.
Colors have specific wavelengths, but we really don't know what they look like or are perceived by various individuals. It is quite possible that red could look like green to another person. Back in the late 1960s and early 70s, when people were experimenting with the drug LSD, the would experience changes in the colors they perceived.
There is also the phenomenon of Synesthesia, where some people actually hear colors. See: http://www.school-for-champions.com/senses/synesthesia.htm
Have been thinking whether an atom is a solar system
Question
October 25, 2007
Hey, my name is Zak and I just read your article on "Atom as Solar System." The funny thing is that I've been pondering the same idea in my head for a while now,and I would like it if I could talk to you more about it through email. I actually want to study this in college, and if you could email me, maybe I could talk to you about some of my ideas.
zak - USA
14641
Answer
Note that although this is a fascinating idea, most scientists don't believe it is possible. One thing is that at the atomic level things are different than at our level. But still, you never know what can be possible.
Ok, here's my question. Atoms can combine to form stuff like water. Atoms can also give and take electrons from one another and do all kinds of other things such a nuclear reactions.
I'm just curious if two solar systems close to one another could act similiarly to two atoms forming say H2O? Could a planet from one solar system somehow be lost from it's solar system and actually become part of another solar system? I wasn't an ace at chemistry so I am being very general here. I mean what if a dying sun and solar system is similiar to a decaying atom? Even galaxies have the same deal ... it has a central point and a bunch of stars swirling around it.
I mean really ... if you want to go really deep ... I just wonder what all is inside a proton! or electron for that matter! We know that one is positive and the other negative charged and we know that. But if we could see inside them, would there just be nothing there ... or would there be all kinds of stuff in them? Are there anything in the atomic world that compares to a supernova???? I could go on and on but it is most certainly an interesting analogy and one would have to be almost closed minded to not see the similarities. There's just something about spheres circling around a bigger sphere that seems to be a huge part of the way things are ... or that's the way I see it anyway!
By the way, does the sun spin on an axis like the planets or does it just sit there?
Eric - USA
14444
Answer
Astronomers have seen twin stars that seem to be rotating around each other. Assuming they also have planets, that could be similar to a molecule of two atoms. But no one have seen several stars in a clump that would some other molecule.
Although there is a slight effect of gravity at the atomic level, a major force comes from the positive and negative electrical charges. On the other hand, gravity is the main force that holds solar systems together.
The whole idea of atoms being tiny solar systems or that our solar system is like an atom in some larger entity is fascinating but probably not true. There are too many differences that would have to be explained.
You could say that a supernova was like the splitting of an atom such as Uranium, but whereas a supernova spews out all sorts of material, the splitting of an atom is quite distinct.
The electron is supposed to be a fundamental particle, but the proton is made up of three subatomic particles, called quarks.
The Sum spins on its axis, as can be seen by sunspots moving along its surface.
Anyway, considering the similarities between the huge and the microscopic allows you to stretch your mind a little.
When I was in the 2th grade (age of 15) it just came to me, the hole idea of the earth just being a tiny electron in a really huge "being". I thought about it a long time and it just made sense to me. if you look at the movement of a atom, the electrons orbiting around the nuclie, it's just as simaler as the movement of planets orbiting the sun. So,I got 3 Questions. People used to think the world was flat, but than they figured out the world was a 3D globe. Question: will human kind ever know the "real" truth about our solar system not being flat ?
Question 2: are we a part of god, could he be the " being" that we are part of. are we building blocks of live it self ?
Question 3: Aliens? if this theory is true, wouldn't that be like the ulitmate proof that there is other life out there, perhaps on a water-atom.
I hope you can answer my questions, and give me the hope that we are not alone.
Yours faithfully,
Pim - The Netherlands
14037
Answer
Long ago, scientists measure the angle of the sun at different points on the earth at the same time. To use this information to determine the earth is curved. Since then, we have sent astronauts into space, and they have circled the Earth as well as taking pictures of it. This all proves that the earth is a sphere, as well as the moon and sun.
Some people believe that we are part of God, while others believe that we have souls that are separate from God. It is uncertain which is true and it usually depends on a person's religious beliefs.
Many scientists believe there are possible lifeforms elsewhere in the universe, which could include intelligent beings. The problem is that the distances are so great to the other songs that it would take thousands of years, if not more to reach those areas. But we are still trying to communicate with possible beings or aliens in outer space.
Note that many scientists feel that the solar system model of the atom is incorrect. When things are that small, they may not look or behave the same way as larger items too.
After reading the physical science content of your website, I realize why so few high school students understand subjects like chemistry and physics when they get to college. One of the biggest complaints I hear from new students is that they thought they learned something in high school, but now they need to learn something completely different because what they learned in high shool was wrong. Please, for the good of the students, teach accepted theory. Especially atomic theory. The Bohr model of the atom is wrong. Bohr was a great scientist whose involvement in atomic theory led to the develpment of quantum theory, but his model was still wrong so stop teaching it as an approximation, or scientifically valid theory. You just make it that much harder for students who trust what you tell them.
Joe - USA
13997
Answer
I appreciate your concerns. A big problem with atomic theory is that the modern views and models are difficult to grasp for many students. The concepts of electrons being a cloud or tiny strings is often enough for some students to give up on the subject.
The Bohr model is not wrong. It is simply a very rough approximation of the atom that does not completely fulfill the requirements of quantum mechanics. But it does a good job in allowing students to visualize atoms, as well as to understand basic chemical reactions. Note that in all sections on the Bohr model, I state that it is has been replaced by newer, more exact models such as string theory. I do plan to have more lessons on modern theories, as well as on quantum mechanics in the future.
Note that this article that speculates whether the atom is a tiny solar system, is somewhat tongue-in-cheek. It also mentions the the fact that newer theories exists.
I would like students to take the steps from understanding the Bohr model of the atom to the modern theories of the atom, and I hope that future lessons will be able to explain it to them.
How Are Planets Held In Their Respective Orbits ? I Heard And Read, Its Due To Newton's Universal Law Of Gravitation . ButIf Earth Has A Particular Density Which Makes It have Its Own Gravity ? Then Do Other Planets Have Different Gravitational Forces Due To Their Own Density? .Then Please Tell Me Why Do Some Planets Are Small In Size Like (Neptune Smaller In Size Than Jupiter But Still Far From The Sun) , Why Smaller Planets Are Far From The Sun Than Bigger Planets?
Salvadore - India
13433
Answer
All planets and the Sun have gravity. The speed of the planets and centrifugal force keeps them in orbit. If they would go slower, they would fall into the Sun.
The mass and the speed of the planet determines its orbit.
Mercury is very small, but it is closest to the Sun. The position in the orbit has nothing to do with the size of the planet. It is simple due to how when when the planet was created.
I believe in a long forgotten principle of the original science of alchemy which established a relativity between the cosmisms. There is the micro-cosm = to atomic structure of nucleus/sun and electrons/planets. It could be expressed as the mirco-cosm of atoms are identicle to the cosmic solar systems and the macro-cosm is identicle to the nucleus of galaxies and their orbiting solar systems. It is also suggested there are hyper-cosms -- where all universal matter is spiriling away from and back to the point of creation.
Van - USA
12991
Answer
Thanks for the interesting information. It is something to look into.
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